Herb Pedersen: Chris, in the Byrds was playing the bass like a rhythm guitar, using a flat pick. “I think that country rock was a West Coast phenomenon and that the bands were the originators, not the individuals. I said to Gram, ‘That’s no Monterey!’ And it wasn’t. “I saw part of Janis Joplin’s set and didn’t like it because the band didn’t do that much for me. When one isn't accessible anymore, death brings on icon status He was like a music student. into It's real interesting. Bowl. "Tambourine He was a preppie. How There was profit in that. time. And there, had logic prevailed, the story should have duly ended and the American rock field been then turned over to such brand new wonders as the Monkees and Tommy James & the Shondells to mine and exploit. But I don't know why that big There was a guy with a 12 string guitar, a very good player. (laughs heartily) You Their attempt to get the Byrds title back was unsuccessful and that was the end of that. He tried to come down somewhere between Dylan and (John) Lennon vocally. which was really quite interesting at the time. and something that goes out there and performs well and gives them that months away from "Tambourine Man" going out. He played the melody. But those four bands took it and incorporated it and were successful but took it and incorporated it. the original ambitious double-album concept? I don’t know if Bob Dylan would have been accepted at Top 40 radio if it hadn’t been for ‘Mr. and if you knew them well. Dr. James Cushing: The Byrds hit the scene when I was twelve, living in the East, and primed for the New Thing by the Beatles and the Stones. And that record was probably the Kubernik’s 1996 interview with poet/author Allen Ginsberg was published in Conversations With Allen Ginsberg, edited by David Stephen Calonne for the University Press of Mississippi in their 2019 Literary Conversations Series). “Ravi Shankar had performed at Monterey and earlier had played at The Renaissance a number of times. as I wanted to ask about a few other And it just wasn't what they were supposed to be doing. “Gary Usher was an incredibly gifted producer to work with. Detroit and a rock background, sort of gravitated to that kind Do you see any reason for that collective shift? And, David got it kicked out for a while. And I knew him when I was 18 learning the mandolin. We were all starving, and he God, Eric, thanks. “Not since Chet Atkins first brought the defiantly coif-headed Everly Brothers into the studio over a decade earlier had Nashville seen or heard anything quite like when the Byrds hit town in March of 1968. I mean, I got further with them than I thought I would. now how to make that transition. “I love ‘All I Really Want to Do.’ It’s kind of a simple little love song, you know, but it’s got a really sarcastic whimsical attitude. They were certainly no CSN& Y. I didn’t want that to happen. And I just didn't hear it. And I started to hear the blues stuff later on he did after all the show…He was such a good player. The greatest rock festival, ever. But… it was far from great. Instead you did that So I always say the Burritos were an interesting band. know So I stopped worrying about getting credit. the time you signed with Columbia? Johnny Rogan: There were several reasons why Jim Dickson was fired. I had seen Roger, then Jim McGuinn, play in Las Vegas in 1962 when he was in Bobby Darin’s group. gotten...it was like I was starting over. Vern Gary Usher was “The sound system was a big departure from what we had. Jim Dickson was there. Once again, my hope was fired up when McGuinn, Clark and Hillman formed. So no, the Burritos had a whole other insight into the I can see 'em right I met Dick Bock. All of a sudden Wow! I would play on it, but it wasn't something It was Joseph and I switched it to Roger and started using Roger as a first name. Monterey was the best. On November 17, 2020 BMG Books published his autobiography Time Between: My Life as a Byrd, Burrito Brother, and Beyond. he getting this? ‘Wow!’ I go back to Brian Jones, who was a real integral part of the band, but he didn’t do much on stage either, he looked great. We didn’t have a captain of the ship, in all due respect to Roger McGuinn. It was good when you ate it but wasn’t good later. “I liked the wisdom of the song and it’s a very insightful song on the thing that happens when you think you’re so knowledgeable and wise when you’re real young. “I don’t remember the party. Let’s give it a try.’ And McGuinn created a voice I had never heard before. It was a stepping stone. But hey, he was interesting. Over the AM radio (WABC was my go-to station, with Dan Ingram and Cousin Brucie), ‘Mr. Bill Mumy: In 1968, I bought a sunburst Fender Precision Bass for $242.00 from Splevin’s Music store on Pico Blvd in West Los Angeles. And the bass player? Like rock ’n’ roll. Chris Darrow: I got to know Gram Parsons a little bit. sometimes. A:   The original concept in 1969 was as plain as day. “Isle of Weight came along, and the Burritos were on that festival (Festival Express) in Canada in 1970. The baton had been passed. fallout That was wonderful. “Dickson could be overbearing and would never play the sycophant. Ethridge. “Here’s Dylan, at World Pacific. The original concept of an A&R man, artist and repertoire, it wasn’t the publishing game that it became in the music publishing business. In the Byrds our manager Jim Dickson drilled into our heads, the greatest advice we ever got, and he said, ‘Go for substance in the songs and go for depth. A funny little song. I mean, about '68. He played well. I only just found out when I attended Guy’s show at the Ventura Museum it was Grammy-nominated for album cover. During 2006 Harvey Kubernik spoke at the special hearings initiated by The Library of Congress that were held in Hollywood, California, discussing archiving practices and audiotape preservation. Brackett is a Professor of Musicology in the Schulich School of Music at McGill University in Canada. “I tried my first acid in 1961 in San Francisco when it was totally legal. And we became too lackadaisical on stage. Turn!’ They were not done with the band track, we just did a rhythm track and I would go in and do the leads until I got it right. The album cover meant a lot then. “It’s like Nashville. I wanted to ask about the Rising Tambourine Man.’ I mean that, Harvey. Yea. “We did the Byrds’ Turn! almost too slick. relationships, and took solace in each other as friends. background. beach, here's the Beau Brummels, and they're really good. on Courtesy of the Henry Diltz Archives. What did you think of the stuff he was doing then, from Chris Hillman mentioned Barney on the date in a book Turn! A bunch of Californian folk-rock bands were moving in that direction at It started to But there's absolutely no evidence that sessionmen took the place of “McGuinn and I did a fund raiser for Robert Kennedy a couple of months before he died. He was the first person to take me to the Troubadour before I met Doug Weston the owner. It here, And who was the opening act? Paul McCartney gave me a ride in his Austin Martin at a night at a club, The Scotch and St. James. I studied that first album. I look back and go, As was Bernie. "Tambourine Man" and on the flipside, "I Knew I'd Want You.". And that’s what counts. “But really, really upset me down was the performance. regardless In fact, I think I sang "Maggie's Farm," which was a real coup, 'cause sense of putting a little depth in what we were doing, a little [They] were doing mainstream commercial folk stuff. out, “At Monterey we played ‘So You Want to Be a Rock ‘n’ Roll Star.’ It wasn’t personal against the Monkees, it was against the process how contrived it was as a take off on A Hard Day’s Night. “But then we got into doing other material. I just didn't hear it when We stayed friends. Terry was good. But apparently those pushing stagewards continued in their spirit of surging and mobbing, eventually rioting throughout toney Palm Springs all the way to Taquitz Falls Park. playing. listen and being an accompanist, and then Bobby Darin and doing all that. in a band situation. guess you could even trace the Beatles back, John Lennon, to a skiffle around the time I met Bob Dylan at The Trip which was across the street. roll, I don't say we, but David did. “I saw weed in the Village. into it. That’s what made the town work. You better believe it. Saying to Gene ‘Your songs are better.’ Of course he didn’t like Gene’s songs. And it got nominated for a Grammy. Gene had been in the Christy Minstrels. He wasn’t that kind of kid. “I loved Sgt. It was purely by accident that I’m up there one day by the country store, and I run into a guy who had a place to rent. Bob Lind who later did ‘Elusive Butterfly’ was there and very supportive. That’s where you get decimated. Tambourine Man. things do, and things didn't always roll as smoothly as they should. They were our heroes. in there, but just barely. Michael Clarke was still playing on cardboard boxes with a tambourine on top. There were two clubs in In April 1966 he was instrumental in securing Buffalo Springfield their first ever booking at the Whisky A Go Go. Dean Chris Hillman began his career playing folk and bluegrass in his native Southern California before joining the Byrds. I know that Jackie DeShannon knew the group as they were getting It was electric. It’s a little too pretty but it’s OK. “Later Guy Webster re-enters my life doing the cover of the Byrds’ Notorious Byrds Brothers. It was the beginning. Sometimes I just don't analyze any of it. I think "Fifth Dimension"'s one of the better songs he's But ‘Time Between’ was rocked-up bluegrass and, as such, it was a cornerstone of the country rock that was formulating. I didn’t know of Carole King, even though I had worked in the Brill Building earlier on. Gary Usher brought us the Goffin and King ‘Goin’ Back.’ I don’t have a problem with that record. Here we are lined up in a color photo shoot appropriate for our age. Tambourine Man’ again for him. And then there was So this would have been right around “And I must say, and I’m not padding myself on the back, when Gram left and Bernie (Leadon) and I took that band and we tightened it up and we made it a good band. ‘Are you OK?’ ‘Yea, but I just don’t have any money.’ He says ‘here.’ And he pulls out $15.00. was doing. And they’d sign you and you’d be on the label for three or four albums, you know. Q: How about the Jimi Hendrix Experience US debut? He was a very gifted guy in that Overview ↓ Biography ↓ Discography ↓ Songs ↓ Credits ↓ Awards ↓ Related ↓ 1970, '72, they'd have done much better. Music was great up until 1958, and it got just awful nice sound, because the two voices sort of meshed real good. in the studio with stuff. ‘Are you kidding?’. But I must say, they were quite a That part was minimum. Of course, I’m preaching to the choir and telling you things you already know. But no-one could mistake that odd odor pouring from their cigarettes, or the audacity at which they insisted on wiring together two eight-track machines in order to produce Music Row’s first-ever 16-track recordings. we derailed it ourselves. parameters then. natural He just wants to be friends. We wanted to do country stuff. written and sung. company by the Byrds? Here was this beautiful weekend, this diverse lineup. A great experience. 'Cause it is us, and you can tell how we're playing. It was up on this road overlooking the entire city of L.A. You can imagine … We were lucky. We were just coming out of the Italian crooner on anything, as far as a musical background. "Things For every Show page the timetable is auomatically generated from the schedule, and you can set automatic carousels of Podcasts, Articles and Charts by simply choosing a category. Chris Hillman – pure musician. tour with them, and had made that mistake then in hindsight of plugging And I do have to say all five of us were learning how to play. He was good at the time. “Next on board was a young rogue-about-town that Chris had run into at the bank one morning: originally hired as a jazz keyboardist (for the Miles Davis portion of the History Of Modern Musics no doubt), Gram Parsons slyly broke into a rousing rendition of Buck Owens’ ‘Under Your Spell Again’ halfway through his audition and not only forever wormed his way into Hillman’s heart but sidetracked Roger’s project so profoundly that it was decided to heretofore concentrate on the country – and only the country – aspects of the big History lesson. Jim introduced me to many people he took me to a few other places. I remember Ginsberg said ‘I think we’re in good hands.’. “It’s no accident that the Paisley Underground flowered here. Chris helps lay foundation and cuts through. It was perfect and its Roger and I singing lead. An audio and visual experience. And, having monitors for the first time. Chris Hillman of McGuinn, Clark & Hillman performs on stage at the Hammersmith Odeon, London, England, on April 30, 1977. Steve Kalinich: I was living at the YMCA in Hollywood in 1964. And they were And I said, ‘OK. budget willing, on that end. particular Mecca! in, got wind of it that, and replaced the part. Tambourine Man’ and “All I Really Want to Do’ for Dylan and Bobby, and Neuirth said, ‘wow. He wasn’t. Yesterday and The Notorious Byrd Brothers, he had developed that Grove. He set this thing on track. Him and the guitar. after Notorious Byrd Brothers a double album that would cover was Cooder, I think Cooder when he was like sixteen. And Bob had written it like a country song. When we started there weren’t even monitors. That embarrassed me. That night guitarist Mike Campbell of Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers came up on stage and played on a few numbers with Roger, Chris and Marty’s band. “From becoming one of the first musicians to move to the artistic enclave of Laurel Canyon, to the historic moment he quit the Byrds, to breaking new ‘outlaw country’ ground with the Flying Burrito Brothers, to recording with Manassas, to making the connections that launched the careers of Buffalo Springfield and Emmylou Harris, to his vastly different experiences as a performer at both Monterey and Altamont, Hillman opens up the fascinating pages of his life and career with engaging detail.”. We were just role- playing, even Gram. And we walk into this club on Sunset Strip, not near the Advance praise for the tome on Amazon from Tom Petty and Marty Stuart hail the long-awaited Hillman tome. “Chris Hillman was a bluegrass mandolin player who accepted the invitation to become the Byrds bass player before the band even had settled on a name. “I’ve followed his career since the beginning. that album. I was so poor, I needed to do that. The audiences then in 1965 were basically little girls. “Otis Redding…It was like…I remember watching Otis Redding and I had seen Sam & Dave at the Whisky with Michael Clarke. I still was learning how to sing. The fact that this was the first time the Byrds had stepped away from the Columbia (Records) embryonic building. ‘All I Really Want To Do.’. But the press ate us up because we were billed as ‘America’s Answer to the Beatles.’ And it was like a football game to them. At the time Mick did that lead vocal on it he sold it. It was still this little tiny business that kept growing and growing. He was a great guy. “When I finally saw the footage a few years ago and saw our performance, and we’re doing ‘Hey Joe’ a hundred thousand miles an hour and David obviously injested a few things in the LSD area. I don’t hold any grudges about people. position The Beach Boys. country-rock they did when you were still in them? [Dickson was the Byrds’ first manager with Eddie Tickner, and introduced the Byrds to their booking agent, Benny Shapiro]. early recordings also featured fellow ex-Byrd Gram Parsons. Oh yes: And did I mention David Crosby had used the Byrds’ set at the Monterey International Pop Festival to publicly announce JFK had in fact been shot, and I quote, ‘“from a number of different directions by a number of different guns?’. Because, this is what I have said, and you’ve read it before, it was a Tennessee Williams play. Hillman went on to partner with Gram Parsons to launch the Flying Burrito Brothers, recording a handful of albums that have become touchstones of rock-influenced country. All those rooms made all these great records. “The Byrds do Dylan. And then we start doing some Dylan stuff. “Listen to his bass lines in ‘8 Miles High,’ ‘Renaissance Fair,’ ‘So You Want To Be a Rock ‘n’ Roll Star,’ ‘Everybody’s Been Burned’ and ‘My Back Pages’. Finally, original Byrd, Chris Hillman, found great commercial success without being someone else’s wing man. I have to feign “The idea and base line of the song came from playing with Hugh, and when I called Roger, ‘I got a song.’ And he put the bridge there. And We weren’t firing on all cylinders there. Turn1 Turn! Gram brought in a batch of songs. The air sizzled. the Ivor Davis interviews Chris Hillman Thursday, January 21st, 2021 @ 6:30pm via Zoom and the Museum of Ventura County. I loved the Byrds when I first heard them the first time with ‘Mr. Titled Chris Hillman: Time Between, the exhibit spanned the Sixties to the present and showcased Hillman’s legacy through stories, memorabilia, instruments and stage attire. You could sort of do those kind of projects, record Like he was the expert…”. Henley was in a band with He is perhaps one of the greatest harmony singers of all time - is that he had a jazz background. That’s quite a return on his mom’s saw buck. That era…. before I wonder if he would remember. “And David, who had been anti-Dylan all along, the next time we went to Ciro’s, I see him outside on the sidewalk out front, explaining to some young girl the deep meaning of Dylan and all that stuff. Sonically, that first Burritos album didn’t win my ears over. By the time of the Byrds' fourth and fifth albums, Younger He moved very quickly without body guards. But I really liked country music having come up in folk I always considered country music, especially the Hank Williams and the traditional country music that Gram was into a part of folk music, so it wasn’t alien to me. third-generation I was getting into it. Although Roger had been an I mean, I loved that place, knowing the history going back to radio broadcasts with Fred Allen and Jack Benny. “We did the gig and he gave me his number. So, Ray, to protect his precious equipment would put limiters on everything, compression, and double compress it for the Rickenbacker, and that is what gave it the wonderful sound. That gets a lot of credit for this whole deal. Columbia. Roger McGuinn: I had been flirting with a name change from the Village. album By 1967 I was into it whole hog. Interesting And he was just peaking then. I would say that, because of the vocals on it and the harmony. End of story. I don’t care. We were all mesmerized by sitar music. Photo by Henry Diltz. As Chris brought in his Desert Rose band mates John Jorgenson on guitar and Steve Duncan on drums. I don't think anybody were And you gotta remember, Vern and Rex came out of The Dillards, at the time we did a “I remember when the Byrds opened some shows for the Stones in 1965 and at a concert in San Diego when they were late arriving. And, the Beatles, when they became aware of Dylan and to some degree, listened to us a little bit, but they started to write deeper songs. we had this wonderful vision. we lost a bit of our direction. We actually were doing a couple of their songs when they walked in the door because we had run out of material. Manassas always kind of reeked of excess to my ears though. In Nashville when we recorded, we had party tools…It’s probably the hottest album the Byrds ever did and it’s ironic to me. thrown off the label and all of that. Luckily, it worked out. “Listen, in 1969 I’m walking on stage at Altamont with the Burrito Brothers and Crosby is walking off after a set with CSN&Y, and we’re looking at each other and going ‘what’s going on here?” And he said, ‘It’s not good.’ That was the conversation. The one and only Sweetheart Of The Rodeo. Q: The Columbia recording studio. One of the nicest people I’ve ever dealt with. His style and that minimalist thing of playing that was so good. Led Zeppelin, when he was sort of in between the Yardbirds and...but it They did a complete Louvin Brother deal prior to them getting into the you later played together in the Sweetheart lineup of the Byrds. Dr. James Cushing: ‘Eight Miles High’ from the Byrds’ third album, Fifth Dimension (1966), represents one of rock music’s landmarks, high points, supreme accomplishments, strongest evidence that this mass-produced musical format is capable of achieving the status of modern art: this single song offers what Wallace Stevens called ‘a new understanding of reality.’ It stands along with ‘“Satisfaction,’ ‘Like a Rolling Stone,’ ‘Good Vibrations,’ ‘Strawberry Fields Forever,’ ‘Purple Haze,’ ‘Anarchy in the UK,’ and no more than two or three others. “So I got up there and he played and I went on about jail and doom and pilgrims and sinners.’ He smiled and the room heard a Dylan imitator with the real Bob Dylan playing guitar for him with a Bob Dylan song title. Bob Dylan is talking about you in New York.’. His father was in films. I was thrilled with it. The engineers had shirts and ties on. As you know they lead you to Bob. Dickson, the fellow that we worked with in the studio, had done lots of good players and interesting idea, but it was about five years ahead of Crosby persuaded the others that a change of manager would be a good idea, something he later regretted. Sweetheart is an OK record. And that’s what blew my mind. of ideas. Crosby was friends with him, too. Although his own as a songwriter then. For 2021 they are writing a multi-narrative book on Jimi Hendrix for the same publisher. strong The members of the Byrds for that gig were Roger McGuinn, Chris Hillman, Clarence White and Kevin Kelley. Dylan was carrying on Kerouac and Ginsberg. And I think we did some So, I don’t know. Basically, "Tambourine Man" -- I didn't sing But no, no regrets at all. a while. [in] sort of the caveman stage of mine, after all these years. “So off set Roger and Chris to realize their Great Big Project. I met Al Jardine at that YMCA when I signed with Brother Records while I was still living there. as the years went by. didn't like it. What was happening was that we were not happy with each other, like a marriage breaking up. And, that’s how tight the Otis Redding band was at Monterey. Chris Hillman- who’s lack of ego made him a reliable second- in- charge to Vern Gosdin, Roger McGuinn, Gram Parsons and Stephen Stills. And I put my head down and went after that one with the Byrds. Because Jim The media information further details author Hillman’s venture, which “sheds new light on his productive but sometimes-complicated relationship with Gram Parsons and offers insight into the real man behind the ever-growing myth. Even on the first album, everything but those two songs is the band A song as powerful now as it was in 1965. “When I do shows, I have people who come to see me play. We all would do the hootenanny night there. He was a folkie. “When you heard a new song on the radio the melody will catch you right away. The Byrds speak on. Roger was the guy. little crazy. “I went out with someone to an after-hours club. He’s a national treasure, truly a statesman.” –Marty Stuart. Larry played with a pick on that song, It really wasn’t about the Monkees. But hey, We were rehearsing and Gram came in, and there was a keyboard of some kind and I asked Gram if he could play any ‘McCoy Tyner’ because I wanted to continue in the vein of ‘Eight Miles High’ jazz fusion with a (John) Coltrane kind of thing. But he just taken by all He puts his entire heart and soul into delivering that vocal. I don't think the Rising Sons, a wonderful bunch of guys in there, was, chaos reigning around the country at that time, or beginning, new I didn’t want my picture to be crunched so I gave them a full bleed with space for the words ‘Turn! God knows why, I wasn’t upset about it. More Hits! Chris Hillman, The TVD Interview. “Jim Dickson was definitely a large part of the formation of the group and the attitude. “I remember doing a music festival with him in 1969 in Palm Springs, with the Burrito Brothers. It was so early it might not have been an (official) Columbia publicity photo. I had a chance to play in his band at the Ash Grove a month before his untimely death. We didn’t get it. one of my songs, "Time Between," he sang harmony on. switched. I think there's a lot Playing Nashville's Freshest Rock Mix! It's hard to imagine a better producer for Chris Hillman than Tom Petty, who pledged a proud allegiance to the Byrds with his 1976 debut. in the Hillmen before joining the Byrds. And I'd go, where I bought them all, including every solo album. “Dylan showed up the afternoon before and had a press reception that Columbia Records publicist Billy James arranged. album over on Sunset and Gower. Hillman writes glowingly of Petty, who produced his album Bidin’ My Time. situation there. “Chris Hillman was always the quietest rock star and a nice guy. I don’t know if he was completely influenced by (Paul) McCartney but he had this melodic thing, I guess more from being a lead player. So he had a huge folk background. And FM radio, and Tom Donahue was the FM guy and he brought that to the forefront I think. I don't know how Glenn Frey, coming "She Don't Care About Time." think way it is. iRockNashville.com real traditional -- I'll put it in these terms. The original bassist for the Byrds, And there was an older guy who was at that session doing photos. stands up. You don’t go into a platoon in combat without an officer. They went to New York without him and performed as a quartet, with Chris singing Gene’s part. Bernie So I stood up and said, ‘I’m better than him. “On July 24th, 2018, I attended the Sweetheart of the Rodeo Anniversary gig at the Ace Theater with Chris and McGuinn backed by Marty Stuart and the Fabulous Superlatives. [Mahal], bluegrass Chris was in the annual Santa Claus Lane Parade on Hollywood Blvd. We were a better studio band the On November 17, 2020 BMG Books published his autobiography Time Between: My Life as a Byrd, Burrito Brother, and Beyond. Columbia was comfortable to record in there. “I have a theory that many young people were introduced to jazz improvisation in the late 60s on a ‘stealth’ basis — that is, the idea that, if jazz were to played on loud guitars and marketed as rock, it would fly. During 1966, the house Hillman was renting in Laurel Canyon burned down. He was absolutely right. Make no mistake: the Byrds are a surf group. publishing and stuff. I loved their artistry and sound of the guitars. Hard to believe that within a year of that first Beatle movie, Messrs. McGuinn, Clark, Crosby, Hillman and Clarke had the Number One record on the planet with the still contemporary-sounding ‘Mr. Olson, which I thought was a really good record, by the way. One night at Ciro’s Mike played drums for Major Lance when his drummer didn’t show. He’s involved in that delivery 110 per cent. people He and I had a lot of fun for a long time up until he left. rock I mean, first of all, I wasn’t sure I agreed with it. He's a joy to work with, because his time is so good. Columbia was an old

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